Beiträge von ProjectionArt

    One more recommendation would be the Barco RLM W Series. W8 for example, or even W12. These are not too loud (in professional scales) and rather cost-efficient. The Gamut is not the largest, but can be increased decently beyond Rec.709 by means of a didymium filter. Contrast would also have to be improved by adding one or two irises. Dynamic contrast and frame interpolation is not available.

    But the basis is good to improve upon - in the end it's all about the question "which model can you find second hand and how much are you willing to spend on it". This is usually a tad more difficult than walking into a pro shop with 100 grand and picking the rig of your choice - believe me, I know what I'm talking about :sbier:

    Do you know what contrast it can get after those modifications? Does it have dynamic contrast feature?


    Also, does anyone know the noise levels on these and what kind of contrast these can get? https://www.projectorcentral.com/Barco-F85_1080p.htm or the F82 version?


    If you take out my "frame interpolation" requirement, are these, the Barco RLM W8 and W12, and the Christie PT-RQ13 and Christie HD10K-M, the best options, or are there any others to add to the list now that we've eliminated frame interpolation?


    I notice some of these appear to have nicer lenses than the Sim2 Lumis line, but the Sim2 Lumis line may have better native contrast, as well as a decent dynamic contrast multiplier. It raises a question, how important is the lens? What effect does it have from seating distance? Up close, sometimes I can see chromatic aberration on these HT projectors, but from seating distance, you can't consciously see it anymore. My question is, even if you can't consciously see it anymore, is it still causing some sort of subconscious blur, or strain on the eyes, where the eyes are still picking up the light particles from the chromatic aberration even if you cannot consciously make them out through all the other "correct" light particles making up the image?


    Or is it the case from seating distance, that if you cannot consciously see the chromatic aberration on a worse lens anymore, then if you view an image with a better lens side by side, the images will look identical, and feel identical, because the benefits of the greater lens are not visible from your viewing distance?


    It reminds me of how, out of the three people I have seen online who have owned both the Sim2 Lumis, and the Runco LS-10, two seemed to prefer the LS-10. This always confused me because both projectors seem very similar other than the Lumis is a better version on paper. The Lumis is 3-chip with 0.95 DMDs, and has higher contrast. The Runco is 3-chip with 0.65 DMDs, and lower contrast. it is just probably just randomness, or small sample size, but the only other explanation I could think of is, what if none of the lenses on models like that are big enough to fully resolve the 0.95 DMDs, and therefore they are creating chromatic aberration? Whereas the 0.65 DMDs, while worse DMDs, are taking a load off the lenses, and able to work with those lenses without as much chromatic aberration. So maybe the worse chip is actually able to create a sharper image than the better chip because the worse chip can interact with these HT-sized lenses with less negative effects?


    I have never had the opportunity to try a Christie or Barco type of lens, so I dont know what is better, 20,000:1 contrast with a Sim2 lens, or 10,000:1 contrast with a Christie lens, and stuff like that. What do you think?

    Your point about frame interpolation is something I wanted to ask more about. I am guessing you are talking about SVP frame blending? So the first question would be, is there any way to tell how good quality that is, which converts 23/24 frames per second movies into 60fps and has to use "blending" because 23/24 do not fit into 60 evenly, compared to frame interpolation on a Lumis 3D-S or Sim2 M-150 which evenly doubles the frames from 23/24 to 47/48? Not to mention even if 23/24 could fit evenly into 60, 60 is higher than 48 so maybe more soap opera effect? But also smoother so... it depends how good the "blending" is compared to regular interpolation? In any case, the main reason I want frame interpolation is for double-stack 3D, and unless I am mistaken, I do not think SVP works with 3d blu-rays at all. But if it does then it would be a great option.

    ...you wont get an Hot-spot, you will get an Hot-line.


    Ich empfehle hier meinen Hotspot-Simulator. :)


    Yeah, very good tool and yes, with some screens you get a hot-line and that is exactly what the simulator will show you. Tried it on my setup and the prediction was accurate. I use a retroflective screen and I have the lower area of the screen a bit brighter. Hotline is way better already than a hotspot.

    Thank you very much everyone. I emailed the manufacturer of one curved screen and he told me that for double stacking projectors with a curved screen, the pixels from both projectors will be perfectly aligned in the center of the screen, but then they will start to go 1 pixel off on the corners because of the curve of the screen and the different angle of each projector to the screen, and he said this would look similar to increased crosstalk in 3D towards the sides of the screen.


    True or false? I mean, true even on a curved screen that is curved horizontally only?


    If it's true, is this something I can safely rely on a geobox g602 to correct? Or do I not want to buy and install a big screen with everything being dependent on a geobox's warping working perfectly?


    Also, that hotspot simulator is so cool. I did not know that existed. However, I cannot get it to work. When I try to click it in winzip or winrar, it tells me it's not free, and after 40 days you need to buy it, but the only options it gives me are to "close" or buy it right away or "how to buy." No option to open it and use it for free for 40 days. Maybe the problem is I dont have excel on my computer, only in google sheets?

    As far as I know, you can no longer mix two light paths after the stereo filters and further process them optically while the polarization is completely preserved. So you need two separate light paths.

    What about with color bandpass filters?


    Either way, it sounds like I dont need any prism as long I get a curved screen that only curves horizontally, but not vertically? Correct?


    If I get a horizontally curved screen with say 4 to 8 gain, will there be hotspotting? I am concerned not just about the center seat, but maybe 4 seats per row while will be about 90% as wide as the screen width. So no one will be sitting outside the right and left border of the curved screen, but some people will be more towards the left or right side.


    Does curved screen eliminate hotspotting only for the center seat, or also for all the seats within its width?

    No problem at all. I am the one who should be speaking German since this is a German forum. But I was using google translate to read the forum for weeks before I joined and incredibly it actually does almost a 99% perfect job, it seems.


    Regarding your advice, does double stacking really increase brightness for passive 3D though? I know it does for active 3D, but with passive 3D, each eye is only seeing one projector so I have been told you are only getting the brightness of one projector. Maybe it is like if you close one eye while watching TV, the TV is just as bright to one eye. Then you open your second eye, and it is no brighter. Each eye is seeing x brightness but it does not double. With double stack projectors, yes its two different ones, not just one TV, but each eye is only seeing one, so it's like both are just looking at one display, I think.


    Regarding the prism, apparently the way it works is that you put the 3D filters outside the lens of each projector in the stack, and then after that, you have two tubes or something, I have no idea, that funnel the light into a prism, and then the prism shoots the light out all together. The question is whether after the filtered light from each projector in the stack gets funneled into the prism, if it now loses its filtered status, in your case, its polarization.


    I am curious what screen you found with 1.5 gain that has high polarization retention? When I researched that it seemed like the highest polarization screens were also tied to higher gain surfaces. More silver flakes in the screen material leads to more polarization retention ability of the screen, but also more gain, because the silver reflects more.


    I would actually like to try Infitec or Omega filters, but these require even more brightness which makes it tough because I also want DLP projectors with no risk of rainbow effect, as well as frame interpolation. And minimum say 2,500 lumens calibrated or more. There seem to be very few options that fit all criteria. Oh, and bulb lightsource only, because only bulb lightsource seems to work well with Infitec and Omega filters (at least, the ones available to consumers. Infitec has a 6P systems for Barco and Christie cinema projectors but that's another story).


    Do you know the names or categories for the curved screens that curve on multiple planes vs only one plane? If I find a curved screen that will work for me, how do I tell from the specifications if it is curved on multiple planes or not?

    I wouldn't mind if your 5th post would tell us a little about yourself. ;)


    Did you see my introduction post? In general though I am a pretty private person, maybe sometimes to my detriment. On one hand being private gets in the way of really becoming part of a community, but on the other hand, it could be anyone posting online. It also even restricts your ability to say things even if they are true if you put your name next to it. There are downsides to being private but also benefits, and you can't have both. I didn't really think of that until now though, it's just habit.


    What do you want to know?

    I'm not sure what section of the forum is best to post this, this section or "Projectors and Screens," but I already have one topic on the front page in that section so I will try here. But if it's OK to have two in the same section at once then probably it would be better over there. Here is the section.


    I am double-stacking projectors for passive 3D using a geobox etc. I want them to be much brighter. Their lenses are to be 18 feet from a 135 "(diagonal) 16: 9 screen. Seating will be 15 feet from the screen. Questions:


    1. How high gain screen can I go, at this throw and seating distance, without hotspotting becoming noticeable?


    Whatever the answer to that queston, which I am guessing is around 2 - 2.5 gain maybe 3 maximum, I am looking for ways to go higher if possible. 4 gain. 5 gain. This will create hospotting for sure on a flat screen, which brings me to questions 2 through 5.


    2. Can curved screens be used with double-stacked projectors? There is curved screen made Germany that uses micro lenses in the screen material, that I have heard is excellent, called couchscreen. It don't think it comes in 135" 16:9 size anyway, but I was told even if it did, it would not work in this situation because it would cause homogeneity issues with double-stacked projectors. However, is this true for all curved gain screens, or only ones that use micro-lenses?


    Maybe he meant with one projector stacked on top of another, the vertical angle is slightly different to the screen, so the high gain would make one appear brighter than another in the same spot from the same viewing angle. But shouldnt that be less of an issue with curved high gain screens than flat ones? So he must have meant something else.


    3. If it's a problem with all curved high gain screens, not only ones with microlenses, then the only other way is to use an optical prism that combines the light of both projectors and projects them out from the same spot. Does anyone know where to find such a prism, and what it looks like, and how it works?


    4. I have heard those prisms can reduce the contrast of the image. Does anyone know approximately how much contrast is lost? Are we talking 20% loss of on/off contrast and ANSI contrast, or 80% loss? Depending how bad it is, it could be or could not be an option.


    5. To do passive 3D with double-stacked projectors, it requires different 3D filters placed in front of the lens of each projector to create stereoscopic separation for the viewer's right and left eyes. If you put the optical prism after each respective 3D filter and combine the light to the same point, will it maintain its distinct filtration? I assume it would with color bandpass filters, which is what I want to use, but Im not 100% sure. With polarization filters I have no idea, but it seems more dicey.


    Thanks a lot for the help. This is only my fourth post since joining the forum so, you know, I wanted to start off with something simple and easy for everyone ...: D

    Hello, I am new to the forum. I apologize I dont speak German, only english. Please call me Art. I am building a little HT with projectors and screens. I am sensitive to motion blur so I was always advised to use DLP projectors, but it's an open unanswered question for me whether the latest generation of lcos, like JVC NX, or the next one, like the JVC NZ, still has worse motion than DLP, or not. But unless I learn that the motion is the same now, I will stick with DLP like I have been in the past. My memory for like twenty years ago is still that nothing comes close to CRT motion, but the only CRT display I had was a 35 inch TV, so it is hard to compare a 100+ inch projected image now to a 35 inch image from my memory 20 years ago. :D I am also attempting to double stack projectors for 3D, which has been quite the complication.



    One more recommendation would be the Barco RLM W Series. W8 for example, or even W12. These are not too loud (in professional scales) and rather cost-efficient. The Gamut is not the largest, but can be increased decently beyond Rec.709 by means of a didymium filter. Contrast would also have to be improved by adding one or two irises. Dynamic contrast and frame interpolation is not available.

    But the basis is good to improve upon - in the end it's all about the question "which model can you find second hand and how much are you willing to spend on it". This is usually a tad more difficult than walking into a pro shop with 100 grand and picking the rig of your choice - believe me, I know what I'm talking about :sbier:


    Thanks very much. Good idea to introduce myself. You can call me Art. My project is a bit complicated as far as projection... just a little bit... I actually need to make post about some of the most complicated aspects having to do with 3D, which it might be a big help if you guys took a lot at it since you seem to know what you are talking about. Actually I am impressed coming from a very popular english HT forum to see great answers on the best models that come closest to meeting my criteria right away, instead of going in circles for dozens of pages of arguments and questions "that's stupid why do you want that" while no one knows the answers. :D So I really appreciate the knowledge here, which is why I joined after reading the threads and seeing it, but let me get to describing my project.


    I will be sitting 15 feet from a 130 inch 2.35:1 screen for 2D. I want one bright, high quality 3 chip DLP projector for 2D HDR. I would prefer 4K of course but I dont have $100,000 to spend on a projector so it will probably be 1080p combining with madvr, although I do have a curiosity what more informed people think pf projectors like, for instance, the BenQ HT9060/x12000H, and if, despite very poor contrast, it can still perform as good or better than, for instance, a Lumis overall, simply because it has DLP sharpness combined with four times as many pixels on screen. Maybe clarity can outweigh everything else? Or is it wrong to assume it would have more clarity than a Lumis even despite 4x as many pixels?


    It sounds like there are at least some things to look into. But why 3 chip DLP? It hasnt really been a problem, but I have seen rare rainbows on 1 DLP projectors with RGB LED lightsource, specifically the Sim2 M-150. So for peace of mind, 3 chip DLP would be better for that reason. I am also very sensitive to motion blur. I compared the M-150 to a Lumis and noticed zero difference in the motion, but for peace of mind, I know 3 chip DLP cant mess it up, whereas sequential color, maybe it could even if I am not noticing? Or maybe it will for content I havent tested yet? Probably not but 3 chip DLP is to me a "sure thing."


    And except for color wheel models, which I want to avoid, and the BenQ HT9060 (which has low contrast and I think cannot output 24fps sources at 24fps), 3 chip DLP are the only bright DLP projectors I can find.


    Then for 3D, I want to double-stack projectors for passive 3D. Why? I have sensitive eyes and 3D is sort of all or nothing. Either it works for you and doesnt bother you, and you can enjoy it immensely, or it doesn't and you can't enjoy it at all or even watch it. So I want to build the best 3D setup I can afford and give myself the best chance to be able to enjoy it.


    3D stacking is the big reason why I care about frame interpolation. I have no way to know if it's true or not until I do it, but I have seen people say that the artifacts from frame interpolation are less visible in 3D, but meanwhile the benefits are a bigger deal, and that frame interpolation really enhances 3D much more than 2D. I already have two Sim2 M-150's for stacking, which should be bright enough on close to a 3 gain screen (at least, with linear polarization filters and glasses), however I am worried about hotspotting. I've seen people say it is less visible in 3D, but I dont want to take that chance given the cost of the screens I am looking at.


    Can it work? Yes. With a 2 gain screen, with polarization, I can get 15 foot lamberts after 3D filters and glasses. However, I dont know if that is actually the ideal brightness for 3D, or just the standard at a time when most theaters were not capable of achieving higher brightness than that. Additionally, I am sensitive to eye strain, and linear polarization has more crosstalk than color bandpass filters. I have the equipment necessary to do 3D luts for both projectors in a stack, so I would like to use color bandpass filters. A privilege of being in the U.S., I was able to find the M-150's at good prices, and believe I can unload them without much hassle or losing any money. If I could find 3 chip DLP projectors with frame interpolation, or at least brighter 1DLP projectors with fast sequential color like the M-150's, it should work a lot better and allow me to use color bandpass filters with less crosstalk, and a lower gain screen with less hotspotting and sheen. And if I already see rainbows sometimes, albeit very rarely, in 2D, I wonder if it could be a problem, or cause extra eye strain, to have stereoscopic sequential color. With a double stack of 3 chip projectors, there is peace of mind on that issue also.


    I was also told DLP projectors would work the best with color bandpass compared to lcos and LCD at the time I bought the M-150's, but did not know that did not apply to DLP projectors with LED lightsource. It might still work but it will require an even higher gain screen.


    Maybe the sheen wont be noticeable from 15 feet away and through 3D glasses, so if I could find a 5 to 10 gain curved screen that will not cause homogeneity issues with a projector stack, maybe I can go forward with the M-150's in a stack.


    There are many elements involved which makes it very complicated on the surface. On the other hand, it is definitely something that can be figured out, but only once you have all the information, like how bright, after the 3D filters and glasses, is the ideal brightness for 3D? What number do I want to hit for the best experience? As well as, from 15 feet away on a 135" (diagonal) 16:9 screen, how much gain before there will be hotspotting? For reference the gain screens I found so far around 3 gain have a 40 degree half gain angle. Throw distance will be 17.5 feet from lens to screen. There is also a possible "prism" solution but I will make a dedicated topic for this.

    Hello, I'm new to the forum and google helps me to speak German. : D Can you please recommend a 1080p or higher 3-chip DLP projector, either a home cinema projector with normal noise and heat levels or less, or a cinema projector that is very quiet and cool, that meets these criteria? Most likely it needs to be "used." It can be released yesterday, or 10 years ago, so long as it is excellent. The criteria are:


    - 3-chip DLP

    - 1080p or higher resolution

    - As much color space as possible

    - At least 1,750 lumens after calibration

    - 5,000: 1 or higher native contrast plus dynamic contrast 20,000: 1 or higher

    - Frame interpolation

    - Cool and quiet enough to work without a hushbox or dedicated projector cabinet

    - Maximum weight of 80 pounds.


    Thanks very much. I already know the Sim2 Lumis, so I'm looking for recommendations next to this model. If nothing exists that meets these criteria, then take away dynamic contrast and frame interpolation. But we prefer to find something in them too ... Don't drag them off the list just because it's easier, only take them off if there is really nothing apart from a few Lumis models that meet these and the other criteria: D Thank you very much!!